The Sidelines: Science communication in Malaysia
With Tan Su Lin, co-founder of Science Media Centre Malaysia
The Sidelines is the supplementary issue to every main edition of The Starting Block. Here you will find the interview transcript and more information about the conversation of the week. The interview is transcribed by Otter.ai and edited for length and clarity. All links provided come from me, and not the guest, unless stated.
Listen to the audio version here.
TRANSCRIPT
TINA CARMILLIA: Hello, my name is Tina Carmillia and this is The Starting Block, a weekly conversation on science and society with an emphasis on disinformation, data, and democracy.
Before we start, I’d like to let you know that the transcript and credits for this conversation are available on The Sidelines, the supplement to every main edition of The Starting Block.
Now, in the next lane: science communicator, Tan Su Lin on the evolution of science journalism in Malaysia.
Ready? Let’s go.
TAN SU LIN: Okay, cool.
TINA CARMILLIA: Let’s start with an introduction to your career. Obviously, you’ve been in this field for a decade at least, maybe a little bit more than that. But how did you get to where you are now. Let’s start also with your academic pathway.
TAN SU LIN: I’ve been… 11 years in the media industry, more so in broadcast journalism. So, after I graduated from UPM in chemistry, actually, I landed my first job as a radio broadcast journalist with the national news agency. So that’s where they first started their radio station and were looking for journalists. And when I left university I told myself, I had no chemistry with chemistry, I’m not going to do anything with it. And also, I had some experience in university where I was a student DJ, so communications was my passion from the get-go, although I studied something else. So I followed that path and I applied for a job and I got it.
And then after three years, I felt I wanted to pursue a bigger audience—more challenge, television, perhaps. And then that’s where I got into a TV station. It’s a 24-hours news channel based in Malaysia, Astro Awani. So I spent about eight years actually in Awani. I started out as a broadcast journalist and I did a lot of local stories, general news desk. And it’s in BM, Bahasa Melayu, because it’s a news TV station in Malay. So I do a lot of feature stories on environmental news and a bit of science because I guess somehow when you’re a science student you kind of can’t really run away from that. Environmental—mostly because it was my passion, right? Whereas science is because I think I like the challenge.
I remember my first assignment when I got to the TV station and there was this hot topic, where the country was deciding whether or not to come up with a nuclear power plant. It was just my first day at work, and one of the producers said, “Can you do this piece, can we put you in front of the camera and do your analysis for that five minutes?” It was for a talk show, and I was like, wow, you trust me? I still remember the producer saying, “If we don’t trust you we wouldn’t hire you.” So I was like, okay, so I took it as a challenge, but it wasn’t so alien because, well, as a science student you kind of understand the basics of nuclear power—fission and fusion and stuff like that. So it was okay, and I took it and I had a lot of fun with it, actually.
So, that was where I guess it all started because, after eight years and my last role was a TV news producer and also an editor. I left to further my studies in the UK, where I got a Chevening scholarship. I left to study in 2018, I did my master’s in environment, culture and society. And I thought to myself, while I was there, what else can I do with the knowledge and background that I have.
So while I was furthering my studies there, also I did a lot of thinking. And when I came back, is exactly when the COVID 19 pandemic started. Imagine coming back and you think yourself, “Oh my god, I’m going to soar high and do a lot of things,” and then, bam, the pandemic happened. And you’re grounded and you can’t even do anything. But what I realised, because of my background as a journalist, I realised back then at the start of the pandemic—I still remember it was sometime around March, I came back in January 2020. And in January, it was still in China, so March is where it started to hit everywhere, globally. And then I realised in terms of the news coverage in Malaysia, especially, it was very one-way because it was mostly just reporting on the authorities—what the authorities would say, what the ministers would say.
And I thought to myself, we’re talking about science, essentially, and you’re talking about a virus, and there’s a lot of science behind it. But where’s the science? Who’s explaining the science? And I knew then media played a huge role. I always believed as a journalist, you have this idealistic—journalists are agents of change that can bring change to society, the community. And I felt like I always knew that media played a huge, huge role. And I can imagine how hectic and havoc the newsroom would be especially in times of a pandemic, and with the restriction of being locked down and working from home, and also exactly the gap that I was talking about. There was a lack of that science, scientific discourse, and also in layman’s terms. That’s where I got to thinking that no, there must be something that we can do.
So, during the pandemic in March, someone connected me to a science communicator in Malaysia. By the way, there’s not many so if you say ‘science communicator,’ there’s a handful. And they connected me to Dr Mahaletchumy [Arujanan] who’s now my co-partner in the Science Media Centre. So the Science Media Centre is something that I co-founded with Dr Maha during the pandemic, to give support to journalists in evidence-based reporting. I see how myself and Dr Maha come together. It’s my years in media and communication as a journalist in terms of the media network and also some scientists because I have had covered stories on science, so I still have some network with scientists. And where she comes from with her background in microbiology, biotechnology and also science communication and also our network of scientists.
So there’s these two pools, the media and the scientists, that’s why we thought that, hey, you know we complement each other, why don’t we just work together. We just got to talk and I just told her my experience as well when I was in UK and attended science communication workshops and conferences, and I felt like there’s something missing in Malaysia. It’s something that we can emulate in Malaysia so we also contacted them and they're happy that we are also opening a Science Media Centre in Malaysia.
TINA CARMILLIA: There’s a reason why I want you to talk about your academic pathway—how you started, academically, because I think a lot of people would assume that to be a journalist, you need to go to journalism school, get a journalism degree or a comms degree. And I mean there are many pathways to becoming a journalist, especially when you are a subject matter-based journalist, not the general news desk. You could from different ways to get to that career as well, but with science journalism, I think there is a bit more of a technical know-how in the subject and I think coming from a science background could be a value-add to the science desk.
And speaking of the science desk I’m really wondering about how it was like when you started your career a decade ago what the newsroom looked like, and the makeup of the newsroom—whether they were designated science journalists, or is that something that you just get parachuted in when there’s big science news like a pandemic. I mean even before the COVID 19 pandemic there was Ebola, Zika, SARS. That’s just the health-related stuff but also major news in, for instance, the environment or climate change, like the COP-21, for instance—when those major events happened then you get parachuted in or has there always been dedicated, designated science desks or health desks or environmental desks in newsrooms in Malaysia, in general. What do you think?
TAN SU LIN: Based on my observation, and my own experience, the short answer is no, or it’s just a handful. In my experience, there are no designated desks it’s just the general desk and people just naturally fall into whatever they are passionate about because sometimes reporters—you pitch your own stories, right? So usually it tends to be more of what kind of stories are you interested in, so you tend to pitch for that story. So that falls naturally for me because I’m following the stories that I wanted to do and back then, I was more keen on the marine conservation story because I love diving, and I was the only reporter in the newsroom that could dive, and nobody could fight me, my diving trip, or coverage to go to the island or whatever but I used it to my advantage.
In terms of science desk, per se—no. Health desk, also, probably no, but maybe reporters who are more prone to covering health stories, there are. But as I said, only a handful. And they are usually the same people, that’s the only way to be specialised, you take a long time to build you network. Even for science reporting in general, it would be probably the tech desk reviewing phones or gadgets, but in terms of addressing the foundation of science, no, close to none.
Well, health is the most relatable one because it affects all of us so there’s an interest in it. So if you’re talking about, for example, environmental topics, it’s quite hard because people don’t see it as a sexy story. If it doesn’t affect them, why should they care? So, if we’re talking about deforestation or wherever, it could happen in a different state but you’re thinking, “Oh, I’m fine, it doesn’t affect me, I don’t care.” Unless it happens in your backyard, it’s still a challenge right now—how do you sexify an environmental story. It’s very hard, I still don’t have the answer to it.
The job of a journalist is double hard because you are essentially taking something that’s so complex, and you have to understand it first before writing it. You are the explainer, you have to explain it to your reader so that they can understand it. But to do that, you have to understand it, and that is not an easy feat—to understand something that is so complex. Even scientists themselves find it hard to explain research that they’ve done and they’re doing their research for every day of their lives.
TINA CARMILLIA: Yeah, there’s a good point about—when you brought up how when there’s science journalism, it’s usually the tech guys reviewing tech gadgets because I think that when we look at science stories we tried to find something that's directly related to our day-to-day activities or day-to-day life. So health stories or tech stories that’s covered in the mainstream spaces, it’s usually something that’s—I don’t want to call it fluff because it is important to review tech gadgets so we know what’s best for what kind of users. But also, it doesn’t go to the foundation of the science so then you become heavily reliant on these reviewers to tell you, without being able to decide for yourself, sometimes.
So that’s why I think maybe with health science coverage because we don’t have the history of having fundamental health science being discussed in the news, we become very—this whole pandemic is throwing everyone into chaos, not knowing how to read a science article.
On that note, I was wondering, as a journalist who’s covered science for so many years and being one of the few to consistently do it—I mean I remember, as a kid, waiting for the end of the evening news to watch Karam Singh Walia and his two minutes of environmental reporting, right? I wanted to know what’s the latest in Malaysia, because it’s easy for us to find science news from the US, the UK, Australia, but what is happening here in our country? So what are the challenges and opportunities you see? The challenges when you were doing that on a daily basis, and now the opportunities that you’ve created through the Science Media Centre.
TAN SU LIN: Most, not all, but most journalists’ background would probably be non-science, right? Either you study journalism, mass communication, or even, law or whatever, which is why we started the Science Media Centre. It’s because journalists are just not equipped to covering science topics in terms of the technicalities and breaking down the complexity of a certain topic. Most journalists are just thrown at it. If you don’t know something well enough, how are you capable of reporting it? And the job of a journalist is double hard because you are essentially taking something that’s so complex, and you have to understand it first before writing it. You are the explainer, you have to explain it to your reader so that they can understand it. But to do that, you have to understand it, and that is not an easy feat—to understand something that is so complex. Even scientists themselves find it hard to explain research that they’ve done and they’re doing their research for every day of their lives. You’d think that they can explain the research well but they also are sometimes having difficulties explaining them.
So I guess it’s because you’re not equipped, that’s one thing, with the know-how—and also partly the lack of interest. In general, for example in Malaysia, the awareness for a science-related topic, especially environmental topics—I’m taking environmental topics as an example because this was what I was doing back then—is generally a very low-interest topic, back then. Maybe a bit more now but it’s still very low as a whole. So, when we’re talking about the general public, this also includes editors and journalists as well. So, in general, the awareness and interest is already so low. How do you get someone—a journalist who is a layperson to be interested in topics like this? That is also a challenge, as well.
And then, maybe we can also start talking about how you get them interested enough to, for example, enrol themselves in courses. And now there’s so many online courses, right? Even if you don’t have courses that are provided within Malaysia, there’s so many courses out there internationally that talks about science journalism, environmental journalism, tech journalism, even recently there’s courses about vaccine awareness—really there’s no excuse.
But at the same time, the challenge is in terms of manpower. The media industry is actually struggling. You can see clearly now the focus is a lot on COVID-19, right? But in terms of opportunities, well, now more than ever, there’s more talks about viruses and vaccines and science, right? So, I would say, probably this could be a beginning for people to realise science is very important because it does affect our everyday lives, your health.
A lot of people are not seeing it at the moment but they talk about COVID-19, and the vaccine and whatnot but we always forget as well, to address the issue of climate change. That actually is something that will happen, you know, the adverse effects of climate change. If you don’t do something about it, it could be even worse than what we are facing right now.
Journalism plays a major role in terms of education and advocacy. For policymakers to make informed decisions, what are they consuming? Where are they consuming this information? …They’re also consuming news like you and I. So if there’s enough information out there or there’s enough stress on the importance of the environment, or on science, hopefully, then the policymakers, politicians, and the government will realise that this is what the people want. This is what the rakyat wants—more emphasis on the environment, on health, on science.
TINA CARMILLIA: And speaking of communicating the science, there is a way that scientists communicate with each other about the science that they do, there’s a way that they communicate to, say, someone who they know is a science journalist. But there’s also an element of actual language barriers, I think, especially with science stories, and a lot of the research in science or in the science that should matter to the general public.
So, like the science around COVID-19, which we all had to find out at the same time. I mean it’s a novel virus so whenever scientists are making a discovery about it they’re publishing it and we all know about it at the same time. They’re probably publishing it in English, and not just in ‘general English,’ but ‘scientific English,’ which is a different kind of English to the English that we speak. There’s that additional barrier of how do you communicate this scientific English to vernacular Malay, vernacular Chinese, vernacular Tamil, for our population that’s so multilingual and so diverse in our language mastery as well. How do you do that, especially for such a fast-paced story? Because when you leave too much time, you create a void, and then you have to deal with all the misinformation that fills that void.
TAN SU LIN: Yeah, you’re right. It’s not just about English, or Bahasa, or Mandarin. Even in English itself, it’s different, you called it a ‘science language,’ and there’s a difference in terms of your day-to-day language.
That’s why, with the Science Media Centre as well, we want to kind of address this by having more capacity building training, and for journalist, how can they improve in terms of their writing, in terms of finding credible scientists to interview, and stuff like that. That’s kind of like the gap you see—it is a mismatch at the moment. So I don’t have the answer, to be honest, because we are also figuring it out as we speak.
I’m not sure if you noticed that even before COVID-19, science communication is almost non-existent. How much science did you see out there in the mainstream? Do you even remember? So, I would say, now would be the time where you see more and more scientists stepping out and trying to explain to people, even through social media. So you can see that the attempts are there, as compared to prior before this, you don’t even see that, and mostly all happening in the lab. So I would think that now it’s slowly evolving from there. And scientists also realise the importance of science communication.
When we talk about science communication, it’s actually relatively very new. Even in the UK, it’s only about 20 years old. And even right then, I still remember in one of the major science communication conferences that I attended, they were still struggling in terms of communicating science, even though they have, like, 20 years of a headstart before us. And when I asked one of the panellists before this, if you could redo everything to make it right, how would you do it differently? They don't have the answer either, because everyone is still figuring it out.
Science communication is still very, very new. If the UK has 20 years, I would say that Malaysia is very—yeah, we’re taking baby steps. But I’m glad to say that we are starting from somewhere, and we are collaborating with other science agencies as well. I also notice that even from themselves—the other science-related agencies in Malaysia—they are also doing their part. We might not see it because people are working in pockets, to be honest, because it’s such a small community. The reason why Science Media Centre gets to join the big boys is because it’s a small community, trust me. People who are doing science communication is just as well as a handful, and we are trying.
There’s no right or wrong, we’re still figuring out our way but I do agree that it has to be—because in Malaysia, it’s also the context of multicultural, multilingual—it has to be translated into those languages as well. Not just Chinese, Malay, Indian but also different ethnic languages like Kadazan, Iban or Bidayuh. But at the same time, we’re talking about the lack of resources. And even for the Science Media Centre, we are a nonprofit, we work on a voluntary basis, we don’t get paid, you know. All of us are doing this based on our passion, but there’s a lot more that can be done, and I’m excited because we are exploring different things with other partners and other organisations who are in science communication.
TINA CARMILLIA: I’ve been looking at your digital media toolkit that was just released on covering environmental stories and climate and stories, PANAS!, right? Do you want to talk a little bit about that? It’s pretty comprehensive for the Malaysian public and also especially those who are covering stories around that subject.
TAN SU LIN: It’s also drawing from my experience as a journalist, being in a newsroom, wanting to cover environmental stories or climate change stories, you know, where I start? I don’t even know, you know? There’s no one telling and if you’re expecting these stories from editors—it won’t come from them, trust me, it’s probably the least of their priority. So, it has to come from you. If you’re a senior journalist, you already have a basic background and you know where to get your sources, but for new journalists, I can imagine someone being quite lost, not knowing where to start.
That’s how the whole idea, where PANAS! digital media toolkit came about. As mentioned before with the whole background scenario I talked to you about the science communication gap, and especially in this case, the environmental communication gap. You only mentioned Karam Singh Walia, right? Growing up, you probably only knew that one environmental journalist—
TINA CARMILLIA: He makes a mark because of his delivery with his pantun and sajak and peribahasa. That’s so eye-catching but it’s unique to him. We can’t all be doing the same thing because then otherwise, it loses its appeal as well, no?
TAN SU LIN: True, true. So the whole idea behind that is the digital toolkit is a part of the project where mainly we wanted to put up more environmental and climate change news out there. So apart from the project, we had a pitching contest in various languages. We have nine stories in four languages, English, Malay, Mandarin and Tamil for a start.
We also had a media workshop for the PANAS! project because of the lack of resources and the lack of reporters who are equipped in covering environmental topics and climate change topics. So in this workshop, we gathered experts in the environment and also science reporters to kind of hold their hands. How do you write environmental topics and what are the major issues out there, and stuff like that. And we break it down to them, even reports from the IPCC. What is the IPCC? Why is it so important to know about this stuff and other policies?
And the finale was the digital toolkit. The digital toolkit basically is a one-stop centre; I would say that it’s a bible but that’s over-exaggerating. It’s a reference for all journalists who are new to environmental and climate change reporting. In there, there’s the context of what climate change is about—not just climate change but climate change in Malaysia, and also environmental activism and movement in Malaysia. There’s also a list of experts and spokespersons and even lists of policies. And also, when we talk about technicalities and jargons, there’s also a glossary. There’s also some tips there, it’s not just all about deforestation, there’s so many other aspects, maybe in fashion or stuff like that, that are also actually related to climate change. So it’s just to get people to think and open up their minds a bit when it comes to climate change and, of course, it will be updated from time to time. All these kinds of things are ever-evolving, right?
TINA CARMILLIA: Yeah, I think it’s a great start because one thing about climate stories and environmental stories that I consume is that it’s coming a lot from outside of Malaysia and I think even when it’s covered by Malaysians, when it’s written by Malaysians, whether or not they are specifically science journalists or they’re just a general news publication, it’s always news from outside. And I think this [toolkit] is where you can get people to find local experts who can contextualise it for the Malaysian public and that’s really, really one of the biggest things that’s missing from our news coverage.
TAN SU LIN: We also got pretty good feedback. I think, more interestingly, we’ve gathered that a lot of people are excited about it because there’s the English version, and also the Bahasa Melayu translation. So the BM version of the toolkit is the one that a lot of people are excited about because it’s so hard to get information about climate change or environmental topics in Malaysia and in Bahasa Melayu. And we’ve also got some good feedback that says it should be translated into Mandarin and Tamil. Hopefully, we get more funds and we can hire people to translate.
TINA CARMILLIA: Yeah, I’ve covered health news significantly, a lot of my last few years before I left full-time journalism was in health journalism. And I feel like doing it in English is not as exciting as doing it in Malay because the gap in the coverage is so wide. The English health journalism that’s done in Malaysia is way beyond talks about cancer cures and turmeric magic pills, and so on. Whereas in the Malay language media, that’s still the conversation, you know—curing gout with some saltwater spray. The kind of stuff that we’ve already—we’re past that, we’ve dealt with that. And I feel like that can be extrapolated to all sorts of science journalism in Malaysia.
TAN SU LIN: And I feel, language-wise, I would go further to say that I actually love the idea of reporting it in Malay because coming from a Malay-medium background, it does address the larger mass because, in our population, more people actually speak Malay.
And I’ve been to kampungs and all that, I feel truly honoured and touched and it kind of opened my eyes. The most interior rural area that I’ve been was Long Busang in Sarawak. It takes nine hours to get there, on a wooden boat, a longboat. We had to go through the rocks and the rivers; it was really scary but we made it there, alive, [after] nine hours.
And the moment I reached there, the locals were there waiting for me and one of them came up to me and said, “Tan Su Lin, Astro Awani. Can I take a picture?” In Malay obviously, “Boleh saya ambil gambar?” So I was like, wow! I’m not saying that these people know me, but then also, these people know me. Then, I felt like my stories—they are watching my news and my stories, and also whatever information you put out there, they are consuming it. And that got me to think also, if you’re talking about the language barrier here, right, and if you want to get through to the kampung folks or even the larger population, it has to be Bahasa Malaysia, in Malaysia, obviously. That’s the challenge as well to have these stories out there—more stories like this, not so much focused on English stories.
TINA CARMILLIA: But now that we’re in a lockdown and we’re sort of confined in our own tiny little spaces, like you were saying earlier, there’s an uptick of scientists and science experts who are taking to social media to communicate directly to the masses about science, right?
Do you think that further down the line there’s going to be maybe some challenges that the Science Media Centre would have to address especially in terms of etiquette and ethics? I'm sure, for instance, if you're a doctor talking about the vaccination or COVID-19 in general, there’s a code of conduct for healthcare professionals right, You’ve got ethics of doctor-patient confidentiality, and so on. But at some point further down the line with science communication, particularly because in Malaysia, we don’t really have the guidelines or standards to how to communicate on social media for issues that can breach ethical lines. Is this is something that the Science Media Centre is looking into, is working on?
TAN SU LIN: Obviously when it comes to using social media as a tool, it’s still very much up to individuals. There’s no way that you can really control that. So what kind of information can we impart them with, say, if a scientist consults Science Media Centre? Obviously, we would, as best as we can, advise them on how to do it. But I guess there’s no one quick solution to go about it. But I’m hoping we get to that stage so that it means that there are enough people out there communicating that we have that problem. Then you have probably a lot more information. Then, I guess, it’s also up to the netizen to have their own discernment. What kind of information should they take—how do you tell the difference between fake news, for example. It works both ways. Yeah, that’d be another problem, which we’ll face in the future. But I hope it gets there because it means that we have a lot of information about science.
TINA CARMILLIA: So, just to wrap things up, maybe you can leave us with some of your thoughts on how policymakers, scientists and experts can work together with journalists and the media to improve science communication—online and offline, through traditional media as well.
TAN SU LIN: Journalism plays a major role in terms of education and advocacy, for example, in science and also the environment. For policymakers to make informed decisions, what are they consuming? Where are they consuming this information? So the media itself, plays that role to highlight issues that are out there and the sciences… because when you talk about policymakers, they also represent the general public, right? They’re also consuming news like you and I. So if there’s enough information out there or there’s enough stress on the importance of the environment, or on science, hopefully, then the policymakers, politicians, and the government will realise that this is what the people want. This is what the rakyat wants—more emphasis on the environment, on health, on science.
And it works both ways as well for policymakers and government to kind of create that ecosystem where people are able—or journalists are able to report more about the environment, be more ready with facts and figures, assist journalists in terms of reporting by giving the relevant information, and stuff like that because, essentially at the end of the day, we are working together to push the importance of environment or science communication forward. What we’re doing is helping the general public make informed decisions, right? And I strongly believe that the media plays a huge, huge role. Right now for example in environmental news, it’s a more reactive role, you know? Anything happens, then they’ll react to it—the reaction starts.
But can you imagine if the media and journalists are being empowered—they themselves come with stories on environmental policy, highlighting the topics of COP-26, or why it is so important that we understand all these important policies. Can you imagine what kind of information that the general public would consume and what makes the general public open their eyes as well, like, “Oh, wow, we are part of this global climate movement,” for example? We’re not there yet, but it’s a start.
TINA CARMILLIA: Brilliant. So there’s a lot to look forward to in terms of science journalism and science communication in Malaysia. I’m really excited, I think the Science Media Centre was establish at the right time. It’s the perfect time for it to come to life, producing #YakiniVaksin that was produced about [COVID] vaccines that’s beyond the Wikipedia page, that's available in Malay, for the masses. That’s so important.
TAN SU LIN: Exactly. Thank you. #YakiniVaksin is an ongoing topic and it’s particularly addressing contents in Bahasa, just for the fact that—as I’ve mentioned earlier that—we are addressing the masses and most people are speaking in Bahasa.
TINA CARMILLIA: Absolutely. And, that’s Tan Su Lin, science communicator, co-founder of the Science Media Centre of Malaysia and also, communication officer at WWF Malaysia.
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CREDITS
Guest: Tan Su Lin
Producer/Host: Tina Carmillia
Music: Theme for Harold (var. 3) by Kevin MacLeod, licensed under CC BY 4.0.
